RPG magic?

[Silvershield]

Just a question...When it comes to magic use and monster summoning on any RPG/MMORPG, how does your conscious feel? I myself have a very difficult time and my conscious totally tears me apart. The reason is in Scripture the Lord condemed and called an abomination any type of necromancy, soscery, magic, fimiliar spirit magic (which is basically summoning), and more. Since the Lord saved me, I have not played magic based RPGs.I have heard the comment "its not real life, so its ok" however that leads me to another question then...If its ok because its not real life, then is it ok for me to play porn based video games, and also games with murder, rape, prostitution, homosexuality etc. because its not real life? I just want to know others feelings on this issue, no arguments please only dialoge. If this discussion has already been done, then im sorry in advance and can you please give me the link to that thread discussion. Be blessed

[Turretin]

I am split on this myself. For myself it come s down to how does magic exist in the game world. Is it part of nature or does it come from a demonic being or what. Also how is it used in the game plays a part for me also. For example LOTR and Narnia both have magic in them and I find that acceptable but a game that requires In game human sacrifice to use magic I would not.

You also need to think of is magic used by Player characters or just the enemy. For example magic is used in the Holy Land rpg but only NPC villians get use of it. So it is present in the game but not to the players.

I don't believe it is just a game justifies allowing it but I participating in a non real life event that simulates or what you find in a fantasy enviroment does not mean your sinning. For example I have just started re-enacting for the war for US independance. My going out and fighting a mock battle does not mean I hate the british or enjoy war. Now going out and shooting the guns at each other and marching around the field is fun but in real life I know that war is an ugly thing and that the british are good allies of ours.
Will i mock the british on the field, yes i will but is what I saying truely an insult, no it is not. I am playing a part in the show. RPGs are similiar in that you are playing a part. The difference is that this is not a reenactment of the past but creating a collabrative story. it really comes down to your motivation for playing/creating that story. If you are playing an evil guy cause you think that is cool I would caution you but as the gm playing the same evil guy to have the players defeat him and help others there maybe nothing wrong in the GM doing so,.

I hope I made my thoughts clear on this subject as I have wrestled with it for a long time.

[Silvershield]

Thank you for your comments, it must be pretty exciting doing reenactments. Holy Lands sounds interesting.

[Vault Boy]

Hi there!

I'm new to this forum. I'm a Christian, as well as a long-time video game nerd.

I remember when I was a younger man, in my teens (I'm 25 now), I had my reservations about magic in fantasy movies, books, and video games. At first, I wouldn't even play, and had no interest in playing such games for this very reason.

I don't know exactly what changed, but as I got older, and started reading great fantasy stories like Lord of the Rings and Narnia (both written by Christian Authors BTW), I began to think less and less about it. And What's more, this new, not so bothered attitude towards fantasy Magic came not as I was drifting, but as I was really spending a lot more time with God, reading the Bible, praying, ECT.

The way I now look at it, nothing they do in fantasy games about magic is anything even in the vicinity of what they actually do in real life magical circles. Rather the idea of magic is being parodied in order to create an interesting story in which the heroes as well as the villains are capable of some extraordinary things that people can't do n real life. It's meant to be fun, not to offend against Christianity. The vast majority of people who play fantasy games involving magic, or who are otherwise exposed to fantasy entertainment are not influenced to go off and join magical orders, because most people understand that it is just fantasy. Now I know the Bible tells us to avoid even the appearance of evil, but then I have to ask myself, does playing Oblivion actually make me look evil? I mean, people can see that I'm a Christian by the way that I live. I don't smoke or drink or use drugs or cheat on my wife or spend irresponsibly. Everyone I know knows that I am a Christian, and so far as I know, it never crosses they're mind to question the validity of my faith on account of a video game. On the other hand, if I threw a big fit about magical RPGs, and said they were 'of the devil', it might cause a few of them to question the validity of my claims of sanity, and that in turn could cause them to suspect (as many already do) that all of us Christians are a bunch of brainwashed fanatics.

Now, my point is not to say "You should play fantasy RPGs!", but to say, I personally don't see this as an affront to my faith, and I don't think the people who develop such games actually intend to offend against it. It is meant as harmless fun, and I think it is harmless for the most part. And to what extent something like Final Fantasy does harm some poor soul, well, the way I look at that, even the Bible has badly influenced people (people who took it completely the wrong way) to go out and do wrong things. Some people are just unstable like that, and if it wasn't magic in video games it would have been something else. The game devs shouldn't be blamed for extremely rare instances (and come to think of it, I can't think of even one instance were a person was led into a life of sorcery through video games, though I may be wrong). I just think a lot of people take things too seriously.

Now, that's just how I see it now, and I respect anyone who has another opinion. If you feel that the Lord is convicting you about it, but you're not sure exactly what to think, then I would recomend at least fasting from video game magic for a good long while, and earnestly ask God to give you wisdom and understanding on the subject, to lead you in the right direction, because he will. (James 1:5)

[CGAdminEric]

Hey Vault Boy,

I somehow missed this post but saw it while pruning the boards of spammer posts and wanted to offer my own two cents...

I agree that in general fantasy magic is not real magic. It is just a device used for fun...which is what games are all about. You don't drive a car at 200mph on the highway and survive side-swiping another car. But in a game you can do what's completely unrealistic because that's fun.

On the other hand, games there are games that take this principle and push it as far as you can go. If it's just fantasy, and nothing is real, then it's OK. No one gets hurt. That gets you games like the much maligned Grand Theft Auto series. They push the fantasy over the edge for many people. In fact, they just lost millions over the debacle surrounding the San Andreas porn mod that showed developers had snuck in inappropriate content for the rating it received.

I think that you can go too far with anything. Christian groups went too far in condemning anything that even remotely looked like it might go against Christian principles...often as only they interpreted/misinterpreted it. Developers who think anything goes if they can get away with it are going too far as well. They have a responsibility to their customers to be up-front about their content and you don't trick your customers. Break that trust and you lose.

So, while I agree that games and their content aren't the same as real life, we have to be careful what we play, the content of the games we let our kids enjoy and realize that anything we interact with, however benign, is going to have an impact on us...even a minor one.

Eric

[king of the unknown]

Magic is an idea of manipulation of existance... In this way it isn't magic that is evil it is how it is used for instant just because a video game dosen't have magic dosen't make it any less demonic... Not saying this as a discloser for my own want to use magic. I am just saying if a charictor uses powers that some could describe as magic dosen't mean it can't be Godly...

We only want to show God to the none believe and that can be done in several ways...

What I can't wait for a game that seems completely normal until you start placing the piece together in the mystery of the story... then you discover the evidance of the ancient demon conspiracy...

[Kail200x]

Thanks for asking this question, man. I was wondering about this myself.

Brad Stine did an interesting bit on this (He's a Christian comedian), and the fact that people are MUCH more driven away by saying you shouldn't play RPGs because of fictional magic, or burning Harry Potter books for a similar reason (Which is what Stine talked about) is a very valid point.

I'd felt some inner turmoil about this, but it's way too stressful to dwell on ATM. I'll need to do some more praying and soul-searching to be more comfy about this. Keep me in prayer, fellows :3

[Aquitus]

when I play magic games (Runes of Magic for example) I don't feel any hesitation. THat's only a game. Something which can't be treated as real or becoming real ever... Games even ones that use magic are just a place to have fun and relax...

[Warrior]

I agree with what's been said so far: Magic in fantasy games or playing fantasy games with magic, is not, in and of itself a sin.
I would take it an additional step and follow what Paul outlines (refering to Jewish food laws): If it bothers your conscious or causes others to sin, then it's a sin. Otherwise your fine. That assumes, of course (like many of you have already stated) that you're in the bible and praying about the issue. Be careful you're not fooling yourself or justifying your behavior. And watch others - that's probably the most critical issue. Make sure that the others you're playing with have the same level of understanding (and Christian maturity).

Personally, I really enjoy fantasy games and magic is a major aspect of "fantasy". Without magic, there's really not much "fantasy" to them.

Warrior
http://warriorsandwisemen.com/

[Dynamic12]

I know this has probably nothing to do with Magic, but does anyone know if Flyff (Fly for fun) is a game i can play as a Christian? Is it occoult? (or something) I really like Flyff, but i want to know if i'm not commiting a sin.

I hope you understand what i'm trying to say and i hope someone can answer my question

Greetz Alwin

[Flux]

I'm a Christian and I've been building RPG worlds for 20 years now - and in all that time I've found that not too many of the people I game with are Christians ... they just don't share the language and cultural cues even if they do share many of the values and morals (I tend to pick good people to game with, there is just a scarcity of Christians who like RPGs).

I've tried putting religeous themes into games and it often gets rejected implicitly, there is a cultural gap. Magic is one of those topics where the gap will show - but myself I have no probelm with it becuase there are any number of startegies for supporting Christian friendly "magic" and still appealing to what most gamers are imagining they want to do.

A couple really successful strtegies I go with:

- Magic is Ancient / Alien technology: The thinking here is that magic is a system of technology so advanced that it doesn't resemble our technology. A purely mental user interface, machines invisible to the eye because they are nano-tech or smaller ... etc. etc. I often throw in the trope that magic is unreliable and arcane because the present day people don't know how to interface properly, or if its alien tech then humanity is not 100% compatible.

- Magic is granted by the angelic host. Whether they players know it or not, it is possible to drop all the clues - spread the story breadcrumbs - and have "magical" powers actually be divine power granted for whatever reason (here we as STs can be mysterious, because we can posit that mortals just don't understand the thinking of the divine realm, God, etc. as an axiom of the setting). This option is interesting because you can prompt alot of roleplay over ethical and moral issues, test values, etc.

I find the important thing is to not make it blatantly obvious, leave lots of subtle hints and archelogical / scholarly clues for those characters who really want to answer the big questions of "What is magic?" and in the later case of "Who / What is giving me these powers?"

I guess it really comes down to answering the question of "What is magic?" for yourself - I did in real life and came to the conclusion that most of what we might see as magic, and certainly much of what was at one time seen as "arcane" is really just physical principle, chemistry, biology, etc. Like a friend of mine who built a really great world where the Dragons were these mighty lizards / amphibian creatures with dolphin like intelligence and squid like social behavior (check out how scary smart the Humbolt squid are in real life - some might say intelligent) and they shot fire because they had sort of napalm glands. They didn't fly, but they were good on water and land ... wonderful way of doing dragons. 100% biology, no magic at all - though of course the iron age inhabitants of that setting had other ideas, the Dragons were very much magic to them, and in that setting I even came up with a Dragon Mage class that really understood the species and how to find eggs, raise them, train them, repel them (with special alchemy ... things they found really repellent) or attract and calm them (again with various animal products refined by the "alchemy" of the day ... which today we would know as chemistry, or with various combinations of color - on a spinning color wheel if I recall, as some of the Dragons communicated silently with flashes of color like the squid do - the dragons that could camoflage themselves did this ...). Anyhow, magic is what you define it as.

[Dom]

what happening. i found this site because i'm i long time video game veteran and was saved a few years ago. i've felt convicted about the content in the games i'ved owned and with a collectable trading card game.

some of the things that i don't see anyone addressing is: Why are we convicted about this in the first place? Why do we struggle so heavily to fighting the conviction? Why do feel the need to justify it? What is it that draws us to the elements of the game?

i can't answer these questions for you but i will tell you what i have been recently dealing with, in relation to those questions. I convicted about this because i read the word of our Lord and as you guys have, i read of people being condemned and prophisied against for its use. and then i ask myself "should i have the slightest reflection of these things in my life, would the Lord have these elements in a game if made it?" I also think of the verse where Paul talks about eating meat sacrificed to idols, and how if the eating of that meat would cause i brother to stumble then it is better no longer eat it rather than damage the faith of another believer.

i struggle against this convicition because i simply do not want to let go of the sense of accomplish and relaxation that i get from playing these games. as i said earlier i'm a long time veteran, which it is truer to say that i'm a long time video game addict. no different than someone addicted to crack or meth. i struggle heavily with this because i often use video games to deal with anger and depression. and to be honest i would assume that most of us do.

i would say that for me the need to justify playing games like this comes from the addiction that i deal with. this is the truth, i just recently threw out (into the trash can) probably around 3,000 dollars worth (retail value) of video games and magic the gathering cards. at times i have cried a little because i don't have some of those games to play, it hurt me to throw them out. however i have often had the verse "do not store up treasures for yourself here on earth, where moth and rust corrode and thieves break in and steal; instead store up treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust nor thieves may enter".

interestingly enought i just recently had what i believe to be a demonic "oppression" or "influence" or whatever you want to call, cast out or away from me. now i know this raise a whole other set of theological debate, but hear me in this. i was the guy who would often say in reference to demonic "oppression" or "possesion": "It's impossible for that to happen becuase as the verse says 'greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world'." so it was suggested to me at one point that may want to ask for deliverience from a demonic opprssion for feelings of suicide, depression, and rage. so i went for those things, they prayed against those spirits/demons and nothing happend. now when they got to a demon of idolatry, my hands began to tingle, then pulse, and gave off a frequency of such tremendously powerful and rapid pulsation that it felt as if i were to have touch the table, the force emanating from my hands would have blown the table to pieces.

now during this intensely crazy moment of my life, i remembered something i had forgotten. earlier while meeting with the people who had prayed against the demons had asked if i had any involvement with the occult or sorcceery or what ever. i told them "no and i just recently threw out 3K worth of games". the thing i remembered was that when i was in my teens i was in kung fu. there is a Energy that is still use to this day and has been since the beginning of the art about 3,000 years ago. it's called Chi, and i was taught and often practiced a technique in which i suspend a lode stone (which is basically an naturally occuring magnetic ore found in nature) from a string, place my palm about an inch below the stone and by "focussing my Chi" was able to make the lode stone rotate in a circle, i would then cause the stone slow and stop abruptly, then cause the stone to rotate in the opposite direction. this technique, i could do extremely well. however my brother, who often tried was not capable of doing it. this may sound like a lie, but its not. the Lord bears witness that i am telling the truth.

so why did this harnessing of Chi appeal to me? the technique's purpose was to harness your Chi and use to kill other people, heal your body, and prevent wounds. all of these techniques mirror "magic", and i wanted to harness this power because i percieved it as POWER. i know for myself that one of the appealling ideas of magic in a game or mutant powers or what ever it is called, is that in the game i can be Powerful. and that answers my final question.

so in closing i still wrestle with myself in this matter or perhaps i wrestle with the Lord. i don't know if i can answer this question entirely or accurately, but this is where i am in this.